In this episode, I am honored to speak with my childhood pastor, Kirk Havel. I wanted to interview him because of the role he has played in my life and how he has reframed stories in my life, especially around God. Kirk has shown me how to live out the gospel and a lot of times when you live out the gospel, it isn’t always popular. He also showed me care, respect, love, and how I have the capacity to be a leader. He is an example of the kind of Christian I want to be.

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